The drugs thread

[Nathan]

Hey all,

I started the discussion about narcitocs in the throwdown thread so let's take it up here rather than hijacking that one completely.

I am of the opinion that the drugs Jimi was taking (and countless others) had much to do with the originality of his (their) music. Reasons:

1) I have a (short) past history of substance abuse and know firsthand what some of the effects are. I'm sure I'm not the only one here.

2) Jimi started playing fairly straight R & B. Look where his music went! Have a look at Salvador Dali's paintings. When he started, he was a "serious" painter doing portraits and landscapes. The guy's art gets progressively weirder, a lot like Jimi's music.

Personally, I hear some of the most creative stuff from bands that were heavy into drugs (I don't think examples are needed here because it's most rock bands). My question is this: is there something about the rapid destruction of braincells by chemicals that has a (positive?) effect on creativity and art?

I find unbridled energy to be a factor. When intoxicated, people often let go of control/inhibitions and freely thrust into feeling the moment. The more primal urges often take over and this can translate into art. For example, thrash metal sounds angry. How can a sound have anger? We use the terminology all the time and there's definietly a link between music and human emotions. When it comes to the strange feelings of intoxication, it gives birth to strange art. Is this making sense?

We can discuss the merits(?) of each type of substance and/or share personal experience. But let's remember that many of these are illegal for a reason. We know all too many folks (some artists) who have gone down that road and never come back at all or who are never the same.

Moderators: if you don't want us to go there, just pull the plug. I suppose it should go to the Bar, but this is where it started and it gets the most traffic. It's no less related to Guitars, Amps and Pedals than the Throwdown threads!

[klasaine]

I vote for putting it in the BAR on this one,
God knows I'm no Teetotaler but there 'may' be a 14 year old reading/lurking around here.
Of course they'll figure it out on their own and no doubt experiment ... it's better that they don't get their info from a guitars, amps and pedals forum.

[cubba]

Agreed. I love to talk about drugs
but Ken's point seems pretty persuasive to me.

Maybe I can add my opinion ... some drugs are great to enhance the mind,
but you can't polish a turd.
If you don't have the snuff, drugs aint gonna' help you.
And in the long run, drugs always win the life/death battle,
so don't be a slave to the forbidden fruit , all things in moderation
(much like this thread taking a hike ... lol).

[NJlo]

"Drugs" is a way to vague term, it can mean anything from alcohol to nicotine to lsd to heroin. I am personally of the opinion that psychedelic experiences can add to you as a person. It's a spiritual thing, and most people say they have a greater bond with other people, animals and nature afterwards. And if your person is being a musician, there may be a great creative force that it can help bring out. Just look at Jimi/The Beatles/Jim Morrison etc.

Don't use such a broad term please, the lack of knowledge about opiates being different from psychedelics f.i. has put a lot of people in the 'just say no' camp.

[Stormbringerpurple]

Let me begin with a basic contextualization:

I did a lot of drugs and abused a number of them for many years. Didn't become a true addict but I dabbled in them more than most of my friends (with the exception of those who became actual addicts and either died or had their lives changed forever).

I do consider myself lucky because I managed to get out on the other side relatively unscathed after years of heavy consumption mainly of Ecstasy (500+ rolls), LSD (300+ trips), opiates and cocaine, among several other substances. Even though they did have an impact on my health while I was using them (loss of sleep, moodiness, minor infections, etc.), I have almost a decade of sobriety under my belt now and never, since I left them, have I felt the urge or need to get high again. In my mind, they had their positive and negative effects on me and whatever good I could extract from them I already have and have moved on. I am done with those experiences.

I got out the other way but they are a very dangerous route to anyone, there are no safety nets and you can - and eventually will -lose it.

Now, in the musical context of this discussion, my thoughts on several drugs:

1) Marijuana: I couldn't play when i smoked a reefer and, to be honest, never really liked it. it just made me feel dumb.

2) LSD: Fantastic for listening to Hendrix, Beatles and the likes. Hard to play while tripping, sometimes it seemed to work, sometimes I couldn't even hold the guitar. Has its merit as a mind-expanding and perhaps creativity-boosting tool but you have to be real careful not to end up like Syd or Peter Green. It can - and I have seen happen - trigger latent schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. After a while, it also becomes boring.

3) Ecstasy: The most sinesthesic drug i know of. It really makes you "feel" the chords, the notes, the harmony and etc. (conversely, acid made me "see" and "understand" music in a deeper way). If you are so inclined, it must be a great dance drug but I was more into the inwards journey. It is a very heavy drug on your body and will give you the Monday blues, not in a good way. Could not play while rolling (nor did I care to)

Opiates can be fun for a while but are very dangerous and not really conducive for music in my experience.

Cocaine has not one single creative quality but it can make life fun. For a while, that is.

Summing up, hallucinogenics can help creativity but can also hurt your mind really bad; empathogenics like Ecstasy can help you connect emotionally with music (It nearly killed me but it helped me in a number of ways that I cannot discuss here), opiates and stimulants are hit and miss and offer more risks than benefits in Musical terms, IMO.

All of the above are, obviously, my opinions about the issue in this musical context. I neither condone nor condemn drugs, I think it's a highly personal experience with high risks that vary from person to person.

In the end, I feel much better now but I am one of those people that definitely had to go through those things. Kind of like the final book Castañeda wrote about the teachings of the Mexican sorcerer, Don Juan: If I were not that dumb, I might not even need them....

[BassMent]

Hmm. I thought I was playing better when I was a speed freak. But I was wrong. I tried smoking weed and playing when I was the token white keyboard player in a reggae band, but could never master it. I just got sloppy and played a lot of wrong notes and forgot the lyrics.

I think that there is a link between artistic/creative personalities and addictive behavior, but I've seen no evidence that chemical substances are causative agents in the creative process. Hallucinogenics might be the one exception, although their effect on the created product is likely taking place after the drug has already left the body; in other words, it's difficult to actually perform creative processes while hallucinating, but the experience can then inform later creative acts.

But I can't believe that it's a coincidence that so many prominent creative people (musicians, writers, painters, et al) dabble with and often fall victim to mind-altering substances. There's got to be some correlation between the firing of creative synapses and a predilection to substance abuse. I don't believe we know what it is yet, but it's one of those things that I expect science to discover.

[Nathan]

Ok here:

Drugs = recreational drugs not including pharmaceuticals illegal in North America.
Alcohol = alcohol.

Thanks for being the first brave soul to share a candid personal point of view, stormbinger.

My experience was much shorter lived than yours but foolish enough that I feel lucky to be out of it. Many of my friends have sadly been messed up.

I can say that I never felt a greater bond with people, nature or animals due to to drugs or alcohol. I did hear music in an altered way but can't say better or worse. I completely disagree that it's a "spiritual" experience as this doesn't mean anything concrete. If it's just something you can't define, then sure call it spiritual. I spent loads of time around music because I had nothing else to do with my time like I dunno, university. It was interesting, I felt smart for not conforming and being a rebel but ultimately it was uselss.

The danger lies in taking (narcotic of choice) because you're happy and want to celebrate. Then when you're down taking (narcotic of choice) to drown your sorrows. Next thing you know you're just doing it all the time and don't have any reason NOT to (until you start to SEE a reason like life falling apart -jobs, friends, relationships, health, etc). So yeah I do condemn the use of drugs and alcohol -it's very risky.

[NJlo]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Ok here:

Drugs = recreational drugs not including pharmaceuticals illegal in North America.
Alcohol = alcohol.

There's lots of stuff known to give you some effect that's still legal in the States, like Salvia Divinorum for instance.

Alcohol enhances mood, as do MJ and cocaine among others. This is a wholly different effect from what you would experience in a psychedelic trip, which can be more than one thing, but in the 'creative' setting it's probably a person thinking in such strange ways that a lot of ideas stem from the experience and this way of thinking might remain prominent in his life.

So of course I don't know exactly what you're aiming at, but mood enhancers are not what I consider creative aides in the way that things worked for the beatles and jimi.

Also, alcohol is loads more dangerous than most illegal substances. In a recent study by a Dutch governmental organization (ironically, not long after the magic mushroom ban) they compared the dangers - socially, economically and healthwise - of different substances. IIRC from the 12 drugs they tested Shrooms were safest at number 1, LSD number 4, Weed 5 or so, Alcohol 10, Cocaine 11 and heroin 12. So saying Alcohol isn't a drug for it being legal in all of western society might not be a good choice..

[rologibson]

Respect to all. I have two cents to add.

Eventhough I haven`t dwell with any drugs, I want to humbly point out that from reading your posts i noticed two things: There seems to be no scientific proof that drugs trigger creativity, we can only point out famous creative artists that used them but that isn`t proof.

The one thing I encourage any young reader is to read more about the scientific discoveries on effects, post-effects and illnesses that drug useage may cause.

I was lucky to have ask my parentsa bout drugs, when my curiousity arised and their simpler answer remained with me : " In the beginning you might feel good but in the end you might feel really bad".

I read a lot on the existing drugs in the 80`s. I never forgot that Cocaine is very addictive and destroys nasal tissue, drepives the person from sleep and has big downs afterwards, plus some experience paranoid episodes.

Marijuana long term use causes erection-disfunctions and even sterility.

I can get "off" just with the music, healthy sex and plain fun. That was my choice to read before ingesting or smokin stuff into my body.

The other point is the "relaxed-non-stress mental state"
I can say that, practicing well before playing live or just by meditation alone can arise one`s self-consciousness into higher and natural realms,much longer and productive than chemicals.

Natural inner-mind peace/health will never be surpassed by drugs IMHO.

[NJlo]

Here it is! I think you can kinda find out from the dutch words what it all means, alcohol is more dangerous than cocaine according to them!