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Thread: The Next Generation of Modeling Amps..Scary

  1. #1
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    Default The Next Generation of Modeling Amps..Scary

    There is a company in Germany that is showing a amp that is truly the next generation of modeling. Actually its not even modeling which is a sample of an amp provided by the manufacture.

    The next generation is pure sampling, you take the amp, you plug a mic into it...you play your boogie and it samples it for a minute...

    You then plug into the amp it plays the sample...perfectly, and you can then change ALL the characteristics...and ADD Some....

    You want to play a black face twin with a boost section...boom

    Incredible fidelity

    the future ?

  2. #2
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    For me, the future will always be the past.

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    This is just offering the power to simulate up to the customer. It's (supposed to be) the way companies model amps in the first place. Very nifty, IMO. Not so sure the fidelity will be so hot as I haven't heard a SS amp sound anywhere near as responsive as a real tube amp. Then again, I haven't delved too much into simulations. Some tell me they're getting better all the time.
    -meedley meedley woooOOOo-

  4. #4
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    Ted. Me being the internet-nerd that I am, I remember the mentioned amp.

    If memory serves me well, it copies frequencies on a frequency analizer. I canīt see how it will copy all the different tone palette one could make with the multilple variations we can use with an amp. One thing is equing an amp at VOlume 2 and another thing is asme setting amp volume 6 etc.. Too many variables and speaker cone reaction to certain notes.. I think that Marshall with the software company they joined forces(softtube I think its called) and Digidesign and Axe Fx are the ones on the modeling frontier and still
    they canīt make it 100% copy of the real amps. +1 With Jaydee the past is the future in tone at least.

  5. #5
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    If you think about it, everything we hear is frequencies with varying amounts of power. You can create a profile like a speaker chart for anything. Sine wave generators are used for most electronics to graph what a given component is doing to the signal. If you make a device that takes a feed from your guitar and reads what comes out of your amp, you have effectively modeled the amp form input to output, and this would include the speakers. You CAN do this for different volumes as well. However, we're all aware of the difference mic placement can have, so maybe it's still a work in progress!
    -meedley meedley woooOOOo-

  6. #6
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    It's the Kemper Profiling Amplifier. It appears (just my guess) to use a similar technology to what Fishman is doing with it's custom Aura profiles. It compares the signal going into the amp with the signal coming out of the amp and works our a formula for the changes that occur. You plug from the Profiling amp into your amp, and then mic your amp and run it back into the profiling amp. It sends a series of test signals through your amp and creates a profile. Then you can AB compare your amp to the profile to see how it comes out. The profiling amp then has tone, gain and volume controls that let you use it like a normal amp. It's also capable of getting more gain than the original amp could, so it lets you get tones that aren't possible with the original amp also.

    The videos sound pretty impressive, but I'd have to try one myself. But, imagine you have a nice vintage Super Reverb. You model it. Your buddy gets a new Two Rock. You go over to his house and in a few minutes, you've profiled his Two Rock. Now you can gig with Two Rock and Super Reverb tones. Now you have this other friend who has a vintage Marshall. Time to hit him up for a visit. For the (admittedly somewhat expensive) cost of one amp, you know have access to three on your gigs, but you still only have to carry one with you.

    Also, it appears that you can model the tones you use when you record a song to get those tones for live work.

    http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/l...Profiling.html

    http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/l...ided_Tour.html

    Hear a vintage Fender profiled. You can hear a difference, but it's pretty close.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywDUAw7ck8g

    Here is a performance in the studio using a profiling amp.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_Ts2...eature=related

    There are other youtube videos if you search for Kemper Profiling Amplifier. However, embedding doesn't seem to be working for me right now.
    Last edited by Blues Lyne; 09-21-2011 at 10:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    Maybe. I'll certainly check it out.

    That's the same technique they do (and have been doing for 20 odd years) with 'sampling' a grand piano (or any other instrument). In some applications it's more successful than in others.
    Have a player physically 'play' every possible note timbre, volume, attack, etc on every key. With the pedal off with the pedal down, etc., etc., etc.

    In real world context ... they never sound like a real piano. Way too many acoustic variables and chaotic conditions potential. Can you imagine all the sonic mayhem that goes on in a loud tube amp in the context of a band?

    In order for an amp to sample me - and I'm certainly not as tone variable as say a guy like Bill Frisell or Jeff Beck - it would take weeks of me playing and the amp capturing the different ways I approach chords/melodies/funky rhythm parts/volume swells with my volume knob (that inserts a whole input impedance issue in to the amps characteristics. Just having your volume control backed off changes how an amp reacts. What about all the pedals and buffers? ... And what about after all that I decide I plug my Danelectro into it now?

    Herein lies the mammoth task with accurately sampling anything.
    Gar Nals ship is not in it's hangar.

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  8. #8
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    I agree fellows.

    So the player that owns one of this modeling amps will be close of owning several high dollar amps and just carry one amp and everytime they can visit a friend they will suck the frequencies life off "x" amp (vampire comes to mind) and walk a happier camper. Hmmm it sounds like this will a new "tone-bra for guitar players"... I still am stubborn on using my own freaking rolo design tone out of my pedals and particular amp formula. I do not want to copycat other amps that would make it truly a never ending journey to madness.

  9. #9
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    Ken,

    It doesn't actually model you or the guitar, it runs it's own set of test audio through the amp. I don't know how it could possibly capture every nuance, but there are some videos of them going into the studio with several Nashville session guys and profiling their amps and they all seem to be pretty impressed with the results.

    Here's another one where they profile a 60's Princeton clone and you can hear some of the test audio as they profile. Keep in mind in all of these I think the Kemper is going through the studio monitors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGEHTr8vqQ8

    Here's one of the Nashville videos where they profile a Bad Cat. Around 1:30 or so you can hear a straight comparison where they switch between the actual Bad Cat and the Kemper. Hard to hear much difference.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx8Q0...eature=related


  10. #10
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    As is typical with those demos ...
    shredding on blues/rock licks with a lot of OD - and even effects.
    power chords or 'maybe' a triad or two.

    The German guy with the Fuchs tone was a little more subtle but still he didn't play anything that really tests the complexity of an amp - clean or driven.

    How about some medium gain tones with a major 7th chord and some pristine fender funk rhythm guitar ala Curtis Mayfield.

    *this is just me but that's definitely not a great tone from a Badcat amp anyway.

    **Every modeling (or whatever they wanna call it) amp that comes out says exactly the same thing about their product ... and they get a bunch of pros to say wonderful stuff about it too.

    I WILL try one myself at some point ... but I seriously doubt that this is gonna be 'the next big thing' for guitarists. I'd even do a friendly wager.
    Last edited by klasaine; 09-22-2011 at 02:27 AM.
    Gar Nals ship is not in it's hangar.

    http://soundcloud.com/klasaine



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